Sunday, June 6, 2010

Facebook's Mormon Groups

The most popular mormon groups on Facebook are run by hard core nazi mormons who delete any post that is the least bit controversial! I can tell them right now that investigators wanting information about the Church, who ask about clarification on controversial issues will view their inability for discussion as a go ahead to abandon the entire process!

Here are a few of my attempted discussions:

(I was posting as Jacob)

I am deeply disturbed by a certain reality within Mormonism. Let me explain:

I have suffered from anxiety my whole life, and have done my best to be as faithful as I can. But I decided that serving a mission would be a bad idea for me.

I am bothered by members of the Church, as well as leaders, who lecture individuals who choose not to go on a mission, and try to get them to change their minds. How is this being Christian?

I think that most men who go on a mission go for the wrong reasons, such as cultural pressure, family pressure, and even ecclesiastical pressure.

I believe that Church Leaders need to change their position on this issue, and state that missions are optional, and that members should stop discriminating about individuals who choose not to go.

I believe that when President Hinckley announced in General Conference that all worthy young males who are able should go on a mission was a mistake, and has created a lot of unnecessary pain amongst individuals who are disabled, or cannot go for reasons of sin.

Bottom line: A mission is not for everybody. The Church needs to stop teaching that it is.

Allen Hanson -

Jacob, there is nothing wrong in trying to get someone to change their minds. The Lord is quite clear that he expects every worthy and able young male to serve. Those who are able and worthy yet choose not to, are breaking a very serious commandment, so naturally people will be concerned. Try and be more patient towards people. Their heart is in the right place, but all are human.

If you have a reason, such as a medical or psychological problem, or have serious family issues, then you aren't expected to serve. I have a friend who would love to serve, but he is the only source of financial and emotional support for his mother, who is in very poor health. The mission president told him to stay home and care for her.

Having served a mission, I can tell you that the majority of people I served with went on a mission for the right reason. There were those who went because of cultural and family pressure, but they were far from being a majority or even a significant presence.
Missions are NOT optional. The Lord has stated so himself and through his servants the prophets.

Andy, that someone might get offended does not change the fact that they are breaking a very serious commandment. Are we to wink at wickedness in order not to hurt feelings?


To clear up any confusion, I should mention that I am not imposing on these discussion boards to raise controversy, or to attack personal beliefs. All I am doing is trying to convince members of the Church to be more Christlike towards individuals who feel isolated from their own religion.

I am pointing out things about the Church that need to be improved to fulfill the mission of the LDS Church, which members and leaders are frankly, far from.

Jesus Christ would not run the LDS Church the way general authorities, Church leaders, and members run it today. There are too many people who feel out of place, and feel they cannot voice their opinions, for fear of discipline.

All I am doing is trying to let my voice be heard, in behalf of all church members who feel isolated, and alone in their thinking.

If any of you can honestly say that it is okay to reject individuals, just because they did not serve a mission, have differing views on doctrine, struggle with same gender attraction, or think intellectually, then you severely misunderstand the mission of the LDS Church.

If LDS Missionaries are allowed to intervene in the lives of others to teach others what they believe, then by their same logic, I have just as much of a right to do so myself, sharing my beliefs.

I am having a hard time understanding why members of the Church are unable to acknowledge that this discrimination exists in the Church, and are unwilling to consider the possibility that some of its members feel completely out of place.

Why can't we be more willing to open our minds and hearts, and treat these individuals with the respect they deserve?

What gives you the right to imply that I am an apostate?

You close-minded mormons, you assume that every uncomfortable statement comes from an apostate, or anti-mormon.

I am NOT an anti-mormon, or an apostate, and how dare you for implying such.

I believe in the doctrine of the LDS Church with all my heart, except I don't believe that our current General Authorities are called of God. I see too much order in the system that allows them to be next in line, and it makes me sick.

That is why I believe that someday, these fallible Apostles will give in to the mainstream, and allow men to be sealed to men.

It makes sense, don't you think?

(Allen Hanson's Reply)

I wouldn't go as far as to call you an apostate, or anti-Mormon, because as you stated this is your belief and you are not preaching it to others as though it is true. The statement, however, is contradictory, because you can't believe in the LDS doctrine, and hold the notion that the church does not follow it's own teachings in having men called of God at its head.


What are your possible reasons for thinking you know how I truly believe? You don't see me telling you how you "should" believe.

Let me put it this way. I am going to believe in the LDS Church the way I feel inspired to believe. Nobody, especially you, has the right to tell me I am being "contradictory".

Are you so rigid, that you honestly believe that a person cannot believe in the LDS Doctrine without sustaining current General Authorities?

All I am saying, is that the way I feel, I wouldn't be surprised at all if our current General Authorities gave into social pressure, and allowed men to be sealed to men. I am not telling you to think this way. This is just how I feel.

I would love to be proven wrong, by the way, but nothing anybody has said to me has been compelling enough to change the way I feel.

By stating that I am being contradictory, goes against what I believe. So by pointing out that I am being contradictory is, essentially, trying to deny me the right to believe how I will.

Where did you get the idea that you have to play "the ridiculous charade that whatever I believe is right"?

You don't have to believe what I say is right. You just have to keep your mouth shut if you are going to say something that entails that the way a person is believing is wrong.

You people really need to stop calling individuals with differing views apostates, or implying that they are ones.

Do you honestly think that is going to make them feel any better about mormons?

Why else do you think there are so many anti-mormons?

Since when did being Christlike become unheard of from its members?

The reason we have such contention is because people with differing views have sought support here, but rather than helping them, you have implied that they are apostates, and used scriptural references implying that God is very displeased with them.

I wonder who is really being defensive here.

(On another topic, I mentioned that Mormons should be more tolerant of homosexuals. Here are the responses I got:)

That post was intellectually lacking. The only absolute- as it relates to religion, is that homosexuality is condemned by scripture and consequently by God. If you would like to base your choices on those of monkeys and emulate them- be my guest. As for adam and eve- all mankind are to be prototypes of adam and eve- and therby gain exaltation, ergo (that means therefore btw) we should all be like them. Now regarding your next comment, i've bit my tongue quite a bit;

Just because a lot of people frown upon homosexuality, does not mean that homosexuality is an outrageous concept. I'm sure the monkeys figured it out, and accepted it in, oh I don't know, 3 generations. Yet humans have yet to accept it. Makes me wonder if humans won't evolve into monkeys someday.

I frown upon homosexuality because there is nothing good about it- as does God, and almost all organized religion for that matter. The fact that monkeys have somehow rationally chosen to accept homosexuality because it is the " humane" thing to do is a ridiculous argument- I hope you can easily comprehend the absurdity of what you just wrote. As for this quote

" Absolutes are only what you make them. No two people live or see the world in the same way. A world of black and white thinking is intellectually restrictive, and emotionally tiring."

Simply put homosexuality is not an intellectual experience. Long story short- homosexuality is simply sin, stop glamorizing it and making it more than it is. The entire basis of your argument is that I should be more considerate of the glbt population- and if I am critical I am wrong, while at the same time the glbt population can say and do as they please and substitute their " feelings" as an acceptable excuse for deplorable actions and attitudes.

(My response:)

Your rhetoric is as convincing as the latest "win a million dollars" ad. It implies that attitudes towards a more tolerant society are deplorable. Your reasonings behind your arguments are arguments are anything but intellectual, or open-minded.

Close-mindedness, of which I am pretty sure you are, does not allow room for alternatives, or exceptions. How is seeing the world through a restrictive lens intellectually rational?

My point, is that in your efforts to criticize my IQ level, and ability to make an argument, you fail to acknowledge your bias towards the lens you live your life looking out of every day. If you would just open your mind towards alternatives, and accept individuals who are homosexual, rather than vote for a proposition that causes them to feel discriminated against, you might be more credible in your attacks.

(Another response from someone else:)

The individuals that it seems you have mentioned, that are isolated (people with views conflicting LDS doctrine, GLTB, feminists, and intellectuals that disagree with the church) have isolated themselves by pushing away from God and his church.

There are many others views here that have no basis (to obtain the celestial kingdom, a man must enter into the covenant of plural marriage) and views that just don't make sense. I don't have time to go through it all right now, but I'll get to it later.

Last night I responded to some of the topics posted on the boards, and ALL of them got deleted!

One topic was: "How has anti-mormon literature affected you?"

My response was: "Anti-mormon literature has caused me to investigate things about the Church I was not taught growing up, and being highly disturbed by what I found, I realized I was a member of a cult for the past 22 years."

Here are the responses I got, before my response got deleted:

(Response 1:)

Sounds to me you are being carried about by the wind.

(Response 2:)

Hmmm,... Looks like FB has changed what happens when you ban someone. Normally when I've banned someone in the past I'd have to go around and delete all their posts. About a month ago I noticed that banning them deleted their wall postings but haven't had a "troll" on the boards in a while.

I htink I'd prefer to have an option as to whether or not to delete posts or not.

Occasionally they are entertaining,.........
But not this time.

Another post inquired, "How well on a scale from 1 to 10 do you keep the commandments?"

My response: "According to whom? You? Thomas Monson? Joseph Smith?"

The only response I got:

Zachary, stop trying to derail threads. Your question is redundant, he mentioned exactly who's eyes he's talking about.

So, basically it is impossible to try to have any discussion on the internet with avid mormon apologists, because they delete any post you have which they feel threatened by in any way! I think this says more about the Church itself than ever before! The Church is a damn cult, and those who support it who know everything about it try to hide the truth from anyone and everyone!

I say these things in the name of Joseph Smith, amen!

1 comment:

  1. Wow...I knew that apologists could be a bit...assholish (best word I could think of at the moment)...but this is something else entirely. Sadly...I know more than enough people that do that in real life.

    I even had one person try to discount everything I have on my facebook concerning atheism and being ex-mo so far as to blatantly tell me over facebook IM "you're wrong".

    I feel you in how these people act...and it's not honorable or anything that they could possibly delude it as.